This episode of The Path & The Practice features a conversation with Olivia Singelmann. Olivia is a senior counsel in Foley’s Washington D.C. office focused on matters related to government investigation and defense as well as litigation. Olivia reflects on growing-up Baton Rouge, Louisiana, in a bilingual household, speaking German and Spanish. She discusses attending Duke University for college and Georgetown for Law School. She reflects on her time working prior to law school, how she felt adjusting to law school, and her legal practice. Finally, Olivia provides wonderful advice to law students on the importance of reaching out to practicing lawyers who can teach you more about the profession. Listen to the full discussion below.
Olivia’s Profile:
- Título: Asesor jurídico sénior
- Oficina de Foley: Washington, D.C.
- Practice Area: Litigation/Government Defense & Investigations
- Hometown: Baton Route, LA
- College: Duke University
- Facultad de Derecho: Georgetown University Law Center
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Transcripción del podcast
Alexis Robertson
Welcome to The Path & The Practice, a podcast dedicated to sharing the professional origin stories of the attorneys at Foley & Lardner LLP, a full service law firm with over 1000 lawyers across the US and abroad. I’m your host, Alexis Robertson, director of Diversity and Inclusion at Foley.
In each episode of this podcast, you’ll hear me in conversation with a different Foley attorney. You’ll learn about each guest’s unique background, path to law school and path to Foley and Lardner. Essentially, you’ll hear the stories you won’t find on their professional bios, and of course you’ll learn a bit about their practice. Now let’s get to the episode.
Today I’m speaking with Olivia Singelmann. Olivia is a senior council in Foley’s, DC office focused on government investigations and defense as well as litigation. In this conversation, Olivia shares about growing up in a multilingual household in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Specifically Olivia talks about how growing up her parents only spoke German and Spanish to her and she had to learn English elsewhere. She also discusses what it was like being an only child, and she shares how she actually had interest in ballet and dance. And one of the reasons she attended Duke University for college was due to their dance program.
She talks about life after college, moving to Las Vegas to be a field organizer for the Obama campaign. And then she discusses what it was like transitioning to law school and how as one of few students of color, it was a little difficult adjusting to life.
There’s also a really funny part of the conversation where we riff a little bit about how law school feels a lot like high school or middle school, and we talk a little bit about the backpacks we wore as law students to carry the heavy books.
And of course, Olivia discusses her legal practice, but I also get her to discuss her role in the firm’s Associates Committee, which over 30 episodes into this podcast, Olivia is the first member of the Associates Committee that I have had on the show, which is certainly something I will need to address in future episodes.
And additionally, Olivia gives some fantastic advice to law students about the importance of reaching out to practicing attorneys so that you can learn more about the profession.
And actually, after we stop recording, she said, “I hope law students really do take that advice,” because she says, “I remember when I was in law school and I didn’t realize that people were sending emails and having phone calls and really getting to know what lawyers did,” whereas she was like, “I just thought if I just read their websites, that was enough.”
So law students, hopefully you take Olivia’s advice and for everyone else, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Olivia Singelmann. Olivia Singelmann, welcome to The Path & The Practice. Let’s just jump right in and have you give your professional introduction.
Olivia Singelmann
Sure. Hi, my name is Olivia Singelmann. I’m a first year senior council at Foley in the DC office. I’m in the Government Enforcement Defense and Investigations Practice Group GEDI and a secondary member in the Securities Enforcement and just our business litigation practice groups.
Alexis Robertson
So as I was just telling you and as I do on this show, I always have the lawyers say everything about their practice and I’m like, “Let’s not talk about that yet. Let’s set all that aside and figure out how you got there.” So just starting with, where are you from? Where’d you grow up?
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. So I grew up in Baton Rouge, Louisiana pretty much my whole life. My parents moved there when I was four months old and I was there through right before I turned 18 when I moved to North Carolina for college.
Alexis Robertson
It’s so funny, I don’t think I had any idea you were from Baton Rouge and I feel like I should know that for some reason. So now I feel bad, but can you tell me a little bit about life growing up in Baton Rouge?
In particular I’m curious sort of what kind of kid were you? What was the snapshot of life if I fast forwarded to you and, like I don’t know, elementary school, middle school?
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. So I make this joke, but it’s a true story that I don’t have an accent because one part, I haven’t lived there for a while, but also my parents aren’t from there. And my dad would correct my pronunciation at the dinner table.
He’d say, “Olivia chair has one syllable and that it’s not chair.” So I think that stuck for a while. And then I think at some point later I kind of wanted to sound like everybody else. And so I let it slip a little bit more. Yeah, I’m an only child. It’s a huge nerd.
I would get in trouble for reading under the desk instead paying attention to math or the stuff I didn’t really care about. And one time I think I got a D on a math test in fourth grade and my fourth grade teacher wrote on my paper that maybe if I paid attention I would do better. But I don’t know, I was a big nerd. I liked school, I did well.
Alexis Robertson
I have the hypothesis. So I’m also an only child and I have not tested this, I’ve not collected data on this, but based on my own experience, I have this hypothesis that only children tend to school because when it’s just you at home with your parents, it does break things up.
And then also when there’s only the one kid in the house, you kind of have to rise to the level of the adults in the house. They don’t have to cater to you. So you become a little adult I think very early, if that makes any sense.
And also very interesting about the accent, I will say, I was curious, but you just jumped in and answered it. I didn’t even have to ask it. And so then I do have to ask, so where are your parents from?
Olivia Singelmann
So my dad’s from Germany and my mom is from Panama. They met at University of Texas and then, yeah, so they definitely don’t have a southern accent.
When they were in their 20s when they moved here, my dad didn’t really speak great English, I think when he got here and still has kind of a German accent. My mom was raised bilingual, so she has a very neutral, I don’t really know how to describe it, English accent, but yeah.
Alexis Robertson
Did either of them attempt to teach you or encourage you to learn another language or rather do you know other languages?
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. So we actually didn’t speak English at home for a while, so my mom only spoke Spanish to me and my dad only spoke German to me. And so I like learning. My dad also jokes, he’s like, “Oh, you learned English in the streets in preschool or whatever.”
And my mom was a little bit nervous and they were like, “Yeah, none of the three-year olds speak great English. They’re three.” Yeah. I mean, I think I’m really lucky in that it’s a lot easier to learn another language, obviously when you’re younger.
My dad’s parents didn’t speak English, so that was how I could communicate with my grandparents. And then my mom’s family, they all also speak English, so that was a little bit easier. Yeah, so we did that until I didn’t want to be different. And so I would answer back in English.
And at some point my parents kind of got tired of like that. And they also spoke English obviously, but I think that was a huge advantage just now I use Spanish more, but can use both at work and just in travel.
Alexis Robertson
That really does set an interesting scene or really rather paint an interesting picture and that when someone says, I grew up in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, but growing up in a bilingual household of German and Spanish is not the first thing that pops to mind, which I just think is fantastic.
And I’m so glad I asked. And then of course with this podcast, it’s this mixture of I just want people to learn about each other and to learn that everybody has a different story. And all the stories are interesting and unique, but of course as the director of diversity and inclusion, there is a part of me when I hear that, I’m just like, “That is so neat. That is so cool,” just getting the opportunity to explore that and talk about that.
But then also, and I’m not quite sure how much we’ll even dive into this, but you are, and we’ll definitely get here, but I’m just going to go ahead and list a couple things for everybody. So you just mentioned your senior council at Foley, you are on the Associates Committee at Foley, which we’ll definitely talk about. And they’re also active members of the firm’s Black Affinity Group as well as the firm’s Hispanic Affinity Group.
And so I think everything you just talked about does sort of point to that intersectional nature of your identity, which is important because there’s a lot of things that make us who we all are. And that’s just I think a dynamic that we still don’t talk enough about in general, let alone in law firms.
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah, I think that’s always been something that I’ve found to be just helpful. I mean, I have sort of had to identify with a lot of things at once. And so I think that in our profession and just life generally, I think it’s been something I’ve always thought as a positive thing.
Alexis Robertson
Yeah, absolutely. And we’ll see if we explore that more, but I’m going to push ahead. So you have set the scene for us, only child, speaking multiple language in the house. Your parents did not let you get a southern accent.
Meanwhile, I wasn’t doing math, I was reading books. So as you go to high school and start considering college, what was that process like for you? What was the thought process? Did you know wanted to go to law school?
Olivia Singelmann
No, not at that point. I also, in addition to school, I guess, was pretty serious about ballet and dance. So I think I thought for a while maybe that would be something that I could do. And my parents would’ve been supportive of me trying to take a year before college or something and doing that.
But I did really school. I thought I’d want to do something with anthropology, like culture anthropology. And Katherine Dunham was a dancer and anthropologist, and I was like, oh, that would be a great way to do that. And I just really loved dance, but also really just didn’t see that my whole life would be that, because you just can’t really do anything else.
So I was just kind of looking for college experience where I could do both things, but go to a school where I got academics for the focus. I think I looked at one school that was mostly dance, but yeah, so anyways, they generally had to have both. And so that’s how I ended up at Duke. And so law school really wasn’t on my radar at all.
I mean, I’m sure many of us had been told this where someone would say, “Oh, you like to argue, you should be a lawyer.” And I definitely had heard things like that, but I mean, my parents were college professors and my cousin ended up going to law school, but at that point he wasn’t in law school either. So we didn’t have a lot of lawyers in the family.
Alexis Robertson
That goes back to my only child hypothesis as well, because you’re often trying to justify your thoughts to two adults, particularly if you add in the college professor dynamics.
So then they’re like, “Oh, you’re good at stating your point, maybe you should be a lawyer,” or you’re like, “You forced me to be good at stating my point.” Yeah. So at Duke, what was your major?
Olivia Singelmann
So I was a public policy studies major. It was kind of an interdisciplinary major. I mean, a lot of the classes I took were cross listed with history. And I think there’s different cones. Some people were really into economic policy. Mine I think tended to be more social policy.
So classes about the civil rights movement and just different social movements and the policies that were formed, kind of looking at the Civil Rights Act and things like that as one that stuck out. But we had these core courses of econ, kind of the intro to policy, which had some game theory, stats, stuff like that.
We did have a dance program that had a dance minor. I think now they may have a major, but I just took those classes. And then I was a German minor because I had never formally studied German, so I wanted to be able to do that.
Alexis Robertson
That is such an interesting mix and array of things to work on. So we have dance happening, German as well as the focus on public policy.
And then either, I don’t know if you want to answer this for the thought process going into college or maybe during, did you have a sense of what you wanted to do with the public policy degree?
Olivia Singelmann
So I did try out culture anthropology, as I thought I would be. And I just was a little bit bored and I felt like it was just a lot of studying about cultures and what happened. And my dad’s a sociologist, so I looked into that too.
But then what I liked about policy is it seemed like action oriented, just trying to actually think about how you would change these issues and systems that you were studying and all these other majors. And so I think it was my sophomore year with this one class I was thinking of, we had these guest speakers that came in once a week in the evening.
And this one woman was a lobbyist for the Voting Rights Act. And she had gone to University of Chicago, which she classified herself as very liberal, but thought Chicago is a more conservative law school. And that it really forced her to sharpen her perspectives and beliefs and thought law school was just really good training for that.
So at that point I thought maybe law school would be just as a good way to train my brain. I hadn’t really thought about the practice of law yet. And then later I looked into things like the State Department, but I just kept feeling like, well, I don’t know if I want to go to graduate school. Also, econ turns out not my huge strength, see the math conversation-
Alexis Robertson
Not your favorite maybe.
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. So I thought maybe having a master’s in policy wouldn’t necessarily be the best fit. So I was thinking I wanted to do that by the time I graduated. I did take a year off before going to law school though.
Alexis Robertson
Okay. So you graduate, you take the year off. May I ask what you did for that time in between college and law school?
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah, sure. So I worked on the 2008 Obama campaign. I started working on it at Duke for the North Carolina primary. And they hired me on. And then there are a couple primaries left because that one was in April, but I wanted to go to my graduation so I didn’t continue on.
And then they hired me back in the middle of the summer and I moved to Vegas, which was like, telling your parents you’re moving to Vegas is a little bit weird, but they didn’t say anything. Yeah. And it was still one of the coolest things I think I’ve ever done.
Alexis Robertson
Can you say a little bit more about what you did when you were in Vegas? Because I’m like, I want to hear more about that.
Olivia Singelmann
Yes. I was a field organizer, which our goal was first to register people to vote and then ultimately to make sure that they voted. We didn’t do a ton of persuasion. I mean, we did contact all kinds of people. At some point, ultimately it was like, all right, we’re just focusing on getting the people who have indicated this is the way they’re going to actually vote.
And so I had a couple of, in Vegas it’s assembly or in Clark County, it’s assembly districts. So just all kinds of things. I mean, part of my district had the Palms Casino and at some point still going to, yeah, I guess a benefits fair for the employees. And one of the things they offered them was voter registration opportunities.
So we’d have a booth or the DMV outside of the DMV was the hot spot. You could register a lot of people there. The great Indoor Swap Meet was another one of my big places where I negotiated that they’d just given me an empty stall and then I’d just register people. And we registered anyone, we didn’t ask about that. And just recruiting volunteers.
Alexis Robertson
Well, thanks for sharing about that. I can also imagine that you of course moved away to go to college, but now you’re out of college, you go to Las Vegas and you’re working for obviously someone who goes on to be present, something you very much believe in.
But it’s interesting, it’s set up all these unique little vignettes where, like you just said, I find myself at the Palm’s Casino, and now I’m at the Swap Meet, and now I’m outside of the DMN and interacting with so many kinds of people. I can only imagine that that was valuable in a lot of ways.
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. It was definitely. I mean, I like people. I think most, well, I think litigators probably do. So yeah, it was just cool to interact with people like that.
Alexis Robertson
Yeah. And so do you, at some point while you’re still out in Vegas, you’re like, I need to start thinking about the LSAT or what was that transition like?
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah, so I took the LSAT before I went. I took it right before I went, which was the plan. So I had this like, we have a really great pre-law advisor at Duke, his name’s Dean Wilson. I think he’s actually in the Divinity School, but he just knows a lot about getting into law school and he’s just really great.
So I had a call with him, got my LSAT score, we looked at my GPA. He was like, “All right, these are the schools you want to go to. Sounds good. Sounds like that’s a good target or whatever.” And then the recession happened, and then I saw him after the election and everywhere I thought would’ve been in, let’s say, June was no sweat to get into.
It was kind of like, yeah, everyone’s going back to law school because no one can get a job or whatever. So I decided I would take it again. And I was also considering whether I even wanted to go yet. I mean, I still wanted to go, but I wasn’t someone who joined this campaign to work in politics, but at the end, it was suddenly an option.
And so I thought about that. There were a lot of people doing that kind of waiting around, and then I just decided that I would go. So I retook the LSAT in February, applied, got in. Yeah, and then went next year.
Alexis Robertson
Well, I’m just thinking about how the part point of this podcast is tracing people’s path, and you just outlined a real fork in the road, which was I could have gone down this path that was more politics or politically focused, but I kept towards law school. And so where did you go for law school?
Olivia Singelmann
So I went to Georgetown. My cousin had gone there, and I don’t know, I just thought it was really cool. We had similar interests. So it was my first choice. I mean, I knew some things about law school from talking to him, but I just really didn’t know as much, I think as maybe some people do going into it.
But Georgetown has a great clinic program, and I just felt like that kind of experiential learning thing in law school would be really cool. And I had interned in DC one summer and thought that’d be somewhere I’d like to be.
Alexis Robertson
I’m beginning to think there’s something special about Georgetown, particularly Foley’s recruitment of black women lawyers from Georgetown, because we have a number of attorneys at Foley that are from Georgetown.
I mean, how was it adjusting to law school? Did you feel comfortable right away? Was it an adjustment?
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah, so it was cool that all these people were interested in the same thing. And we enjoyed what we were learning. And I felt like everyone just pushed each other to study.
It’s a lot of work, but the norm was that everyone was working really hard. So that was nice. I mean, not that it wasn’t like that at Duke, but it just didn’t feel… It was a bigger school.
Alexis Robertson
Yeah, it’s different. It’s a smaller dynamic and you’re all, like you said, you’re all focusing on the same thing to some extent.
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. And then I did know some other people who we didn’t planned to go, but there were a couple people from Duke crew there at the same time. So it was a nice surprise.
So I felt comfortable, but it was, I don’t know, law school was a little bit weird and it felt a little high school in some ways with the dynamic and kind of that, like if you’ve seen the movie Legally Blonde where they’re like, “You can’t be in my study group,” I wasn’t really prepared for that.
Alexis Robertson
Sorry, I love that you said that because I haven’t thought about this in a while either, but I remember when I went to law school feeling like I was back in elementary school, middle school. And even setting aside social dynamics, but I had a backpack. I had to have a backpack because the books were so heavy, there was no option.
I had a locker. I think I was often packing my lunch, like if you compared. And what was really funny was because of that was, in my view, the law students, we almost somehow looked younger than the college students because we’re just walking around with our backpacks on just like-
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. I remember the backpack switch because I didn’t have one at Duke, and you did have to walk a lot, but they were paperback books or whatever. And then Georgetown does have a dorm, so there’s also that dorm component.
Alexis Robertson
That dynamic. Yup.
Olivia Singelmann
And so I didn’t need the backpack the first year because I could just go back to my dorm, but yeah, I think I had to walk a quarter of a mile to school the next two years, and there was no way that the shoulder bag was going to work. So I got a green transport backpack. Yeah.
Alexis Robertson
See, I love that we shared and that I think that’s a common law school experience. I did not live on campus, but I definitely had a number of friends who lived in The Law Quad at Michigan. And that is certainly a part of it.
And it can be great from really having a 24 hours a day law school experience. Everyone is doing the same thing, but I do think it could feed into some certain levels of anxiety. And as you were talking about earlier, there is that, I’m trying to figure out how this works.
How are you supposed to study? People are in study groups. Do I need a study group? Who study group should I be in? Can I be in your study group? Dynamic that for some is great, but for others you do need to just decide like, actually, I don’t need that. I’m fine studying on my own.
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And then I think the other thing, I mean, I think people have this perception of Duke as this elite, mostly white private school, but Duke is actually really diverse. I mean, they’ve made a very concerted effort ever since when I was there, which I’ve now been out for a while. And I don’t think people realize that.
So I had all kinds of friends, I would see all kinds of people. And then that I think, I mean, it hadn’t been since growing up that I was in an environment where I was like, I went to Duke with all these high achieving minorities and I’m not seeing a ton of them here.
I think in my section of 110, it was me and four other girls, maybe two guys. And I don’t know, you hear the stats about men in higher education as well, but that was a little bit jarring to see. I think that was the biggest.
Alexis Robertson
And that’s in terms of just other people of color>
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. Just look around, it was a little bit jarring. I mean, Georgetown felt welcome. And obviously as you mentioned, there are many black women from Georgetown and many of them work here, but it was just a contrast from my college experience.
Alexis Robertson
Well, I think it’s important you touch on that because also given the subject matter in law school, I think it can even amplify some of that feeling of otherness.
I mean, I would think in many ways my law school experience is probably similar to yours, but there’s days where in constitutional law you’re talking about certain cases and at their core they deal with race and maybe it’s whether or not a certain clause applies.
And there’s that dynamic. And I think particularly every black law student has experienced this where it’s that one case and you feel that everyone’s looking at you.
Like you’re supposed to raise your hand and offer an opinion, and maybe somebody’s already said something that the antithesis of what you believe, but it can create that dynamic of, okay, am I here to represent everybody of… And it happens in a lot of different contexts.
It’s not unusual thing for a minority experience or an underrepresented minority experience, but I do think the dynamics of law school can make it really stark, particularly in just certain days, certain classes.
Olivia Singelmann
I don’t have a particular memory of that, like an incident I guess I should say. But yeah, I mean, talking about criminal procedure, criminal law, yeah, it can be a little bit different.
Alexis Robertson
Yeah. Well, there’s just an added layer there because I think everybody, no matter who you are in law school, dealing with so much, but it’s one more thing. So how does Foley show up? How do you get connected with Foley and Lardner?
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah, so I did not think that I was going to work at a law firm. Again, I really didn’t know anything about the industry as a whole. I mean, I think at this point, by the time I went to law school, it was more than just a training thing.
I definitely planned to practice. Georgetown does also have a great public interest program. So I think that fit with the policy stuff and the stuff I’d seen on the campaign, but I just didn’t know a lot about it.
And I did well or whatever my first year and I worked at Legal Aid that summer in New York, and that was really cool. But then it sort of seemed like, oh, there’s this OCI thing and if you don’t try to do it it would be hard to work at a firm.
And I guess I’ve never been someone who wanted to close the door, and I just didn’t know about working at firms and what that would mean and the opportunities. And I think another thing I was really interested in kind of international work, and it was really hard to get those public interest jobs, especially at that time.
I mean, I think we had a job market than the class in front of us, but this was 2009, 2010. I didn’t do the Peace Corps. So the things I thought that were strengths, I mean, they are strengths for international work. I didn’t do the Peace Corps, so I wasn’t getting that X job.
And so I just thought I’d look into firm stuff and then kind of realized, oh, there’s this really cool private international law component that would be really interesting and satisfy a lot of the same things I was looking for in public interest.
So I just thought I’d tried out, really didn’t know that much about it. Yeah. And then I interviewed with Foley at OCI, they really stood out in terms of the feel I got.
Alexis Robertson
Well, and we’re going to talk more about that, but I just have to comment because I think what you just shared is the experience that so many people have. For whatever reason, you know, want to go to law school, you don’t have any concept of law firms or that whole big law world.
Some of your peers probably know a lot about it, which are like, how do you know all this? And then there also is, and I hope I don’t sound like I’m taking this too lightly or making fun, but there’s usually also a dynamic of people who are like, I’m public interest.
If you are public interest, you should not even consider briefly applying to a law firm. What is wrong with you? And you’re like, “Wait, okay, but which on am I?” But I just had to reiterate that because I just think that experience is so common and you’re just making the best decision you can at the time.
I certainly have someone who was like, yeah, I’ll go to a law firm, but I don’t really know a lot about any of them or what type of work I might be doing. But anyway, so you connect with Foley, the firm stands out, and so I’m guessing you summered with Foley and Lardner then for that.
So I don’t know. And for you, we have a little bit of ground to cover because you mentioned your senior council, you’ve been with the firm for a long time, but I don’t know if there’s anything to briefly highlight from that time period, because now then we’re going to jump to your practice.
Olivia Singelmann
It was my introduction to the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act like, [inaudible 00:27:48] interviewed me. He was my first callback interview person, and he told me about it. I never really heard about it, but then he actually went to Justice.
So by the time I came back for the summer, he was gone. Although obviously he is back now. I feel like the stuff I learned in the summer was like, oh cool, this is a whole path of law that’s really interesting to me that I didn’t really know much about, other than layman’s context. And I think, I mean, that is how I got-
Alexis Robertson
That’s perfect. And that’s the purpose of the summer is to get exposed to some stuff so that when you do come back, you’re able to focus more on what interests you and of course where the firm has availability and capacity. So now restate your practice again. What are your areas of focus?
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. So I focus on government enforcement defense work that has, I think my specialty or what you would look to me for and not someone else would be investigations in Latin America that you need someone who’s bilingual for or representing people before the SEC and enforcement proceedings or parallel DOJ, SEC enforcement proceedings.
Given that I’m in both groups. So it’s been the kind of international anti-bribery work focused on Latin America, but we’ll do that for other regions as well.
And then at the SEC securities is probably something I did some in the summer, but my first and second year working with Sandy Weiner, that I realized, oh, this is also something that is very similar, like a similar skillset, although the SEC has its own thing.
And so through that gained experience in representing auditors and other people in those sorts of defense proceedings.
Alexis Robertson
Okay. So I’m way too pleased with myself right now, but I’m just thinking about how some of the other guests on the podcast have made it such that I have a better understanding of your practice and who you work with.
So before we started recording, I mentioned how I recently had Adrian Jensen on. And so the listeners may not have listened to his podcast, but he definitely fills in some gaps about what an SEC practice can look like from that defense and enforcement and that litigation viewpoint.
And then also Christopher Swift was on the show, and I don’t know if you’ve had occasion to work with him on some of the other international stuff, as I know you focused more on Latin America, but so listeners, go check those out as well, particularly if anything that Olivia has said is something you find interesting.
But I would love if you could even elaborate on how it was. So it sounds like as a summer you got exposed to this area and at this point for you we’re rewinding eight, nine years, but do you have any reflections on how it is that you sort of settled in on this particular practice area?
Olivia Singelmann
As much as I liked litigation, I wasn’t as interested in just pure commercial litigation in terms of it being 100% of my practice. And so the government enforcement work, you do get to do some more investigative stuff because if it’s an internal investigation for a client, you’re obviously kind of playing the role.
I mean, always with the defense perspective in mind, but going out and understanding the facts and interviewing people. If you’re in an enforcement posture with the government, you’re doing that work to maybe catch up on what they know or inform them.
And so there’s just a different back and forth than just commercial litigation. And that just felt like it suited my personality and just what I was interested in.
I mean, I have always maintained a part of my practice that’s been commercial litigation, and I think that’s really important because ultimately, like if those kind of government type defense proceedings ended up in court, you obviously need to know how to do that.
And I think that’s one great thing about Foley is that we don’t have to specialize too early. So I was always interested in the GEDI work and the SEC work, but I didn’t become primary in GEDI until a few years ago anyways. It was just that type of work plus the subject matter that I guess-
Alexis Robertson
And you just said a number of things that I either have to reiterate or follow up on. Okay, so one GEDI is the acronym in Foley for Government Enforcement Defense and Investigations Practice Group. It is easily one of the coolest acronym names I’ve heard in a law firm, except it’s GEDI.
Anyway, just had to get that out of the way. You also mentioned, and this may be clear, but I always just like to, particularly for law students that are listening, just to make it really clear, but I think within the whole litigation sphere, you often think litigator, federal or state court, done. That’s what litigators do.
And depending on where you work and what options you have, that may be your only option. But there is this world of representing someone, it’s usually a litigator who does this. In some sort of government, I’ll say agency, for lack of a better word, is doing some sort of investigation into you.
And so what you’ve mentioned is the Securities and Exchange Commission and a few others. I don’t know if it’s worth elaborating to tease out the differences, but I just wanted to pause because I think that’s something if I was still in law school, I might not have fully appreciated the differences between.
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. So I mean, I think the two agencies for me have mostly been the Securities Exchange Commission, SEC, and then the Department of Justice and different parts of justice. So there’s the criminal fraud section, which is under main justice, and there’s an FCPA unit there, and there’s a healthcare fraud unit.
I mean, my work has been with the FCPA unit, but before when I was more junior, I’d also done some criminal antitrust work and that there could be local US attorney’s offices working on things like that.
Alexis Robertson
I want to take you back, if you don’t mind, to the FCPA, which as I generally vaguely recall, I think is the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
Olivia Singelmann
Sí.
Alexis Robertson
What is that? I don’t know, how does that come up for some work company or organization?
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. So that is a lot, that’s actually has joint jurisdiction in terms of enforcement with DOJ and the SEC, which is another reason why those two practice groups have made sense for me.
And I think my first FCP case was actually before the SEC, but it’s a law that basically says a US business or it’s subsidiary or people working for that subsidiary, even if they themselves are not US citizens, cannot provide something of value or promise to provide something of value in exchange for a business benefit.
Basically, you can either find someone in another country to get the construction permit you need for the Walmart you’re trying to build in Mexico is a publicly known example, I guess. And this is obviously me, I’m not quoting the-
Alexis Robertson
No, no, no, you’re giving the gist. Well, I just appreciate that because those are words that I might see on someone’s bio. It says FCPA, and I don’t know what that means, but it’s also just a good example of something that may or may not rise to the level of violating that has come up for a large company and Foley or another large law firm or somebody with experience and government enforcement investigations and defense will come in and help.
And I won’t put you on the spot anymore and make you explain the details to your practice, but I do appreciate it. And as I think all the listeners at this point know, we’re not here talking legal advice, but this is exactly the sort of stuff that I just don’t think you hear about when you’re in law school.
It’s sort of like, are you going to be a litigator or are you going to do corporate? And you learn the federal rules of civil procedure and that’s about it. But actually in our last, I don’t know, 10 minutes or so together, I wanted to switch gears and talk a little bit about your role as a member of the firm’s Associate Committee.
And before I allow you just to elaborate on that, I did just want to pause and say the Associates Committee at Foley is something that I have found to be really unique in that I’ve worked at a number of firms and many of those firms, not all, have had an Associates Committee, but I’ve been really impressed by the role the Associates Committee at Foley has and the voice the committee has.
And so that’s why I’d love to get you just to say a little bit more about it.
Olivia Singelmann
Sure. Yeah. So the Associates Committee is a group of associates and senior council from each office chaired by one associate senior council that leads is basically with firm management and then the non-partner in their respective offices.
So we bring the concerns of those non-partner to management. We get information from management and kind of serve as a conduit to back to our offices. Yeah. I think the firm invests a lot of resources in the committee, which I think is why that’s the signal that they value our input.
And I think one of the coolest things is once I was actually on it, having those meetings with Jay and Stan and seeing them really value our opinion and the opinion of the people we were representing was just really cool.
Alexis Robertson
Yeah. I’m nodding as you say that because it’s just something that I do think is unique, shouldn’t be taken lightly. For me, so I started at Foley on a Monday and later that day I flew to Houston so that I could attend, I think it was day two of an Associates Committee meeting because it was an opportunity to meet some of you all.
Everyone on the associates committee is from around the country and everybody flew in back when we could do things in person. We obviously aren’t doing this now, but also our CEO and our managing partner, Jay Rothman and Stan Jaspan, were there in meetings with you all getting your feedback on things and really doing the best that they can to hear the concerns of the associates and senior council and do what they can to address them.
And so it’s really, really neat, not to knock any other associates committees anywhere else. It’s just my personal joke. No one get mad at me.
But often what you’ll see for committees that is, it’s sort of you’re talking about what sort of coffee you have in the offices and the things that you guys are spearheading and raising in the firm go so much beyond that and being substantive. And so I just had to add that because it really is awesome the role it plays.
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. And it’s been really fun too. I mean, yes, I think we do focus on really substantive business things. And I will say I’ve learned a lot about the firm just getting to be in those conversations, which has been really cool, but it’s also really nice to see people from other offices.
It’s one of the things I miss most. We’ve still been meeting virtually, but I miss those quarterly in-person meetings. I just generally, I feel like when I’ve had to work on like a cross office project, whether it’s a committee like this or a case, it’s all very different.
But I always just marvel at how well people from other offices get along with one another. And so, yeah, I’m looking forward to, I don’t know that I’ll still… I’m supposed to be rolling off the committee at some point.
Alexis Robertson
At some point you do sort of age off or charm off it.
Olivia Singelmann
Yeah. But to the extent I am, whenever we do get to go back in-person, I would look forward to that.
Alexis Robertson
Yeah. And that’s actually a little bit of a segue because we’re talking about something about Foley that’s unique and is great. And also I think one of my, I frequently list my goals for this podcast, so if someone’s listening, they’re like, “he’s a lot of goals.”
But one of them also is to sort of magnify your ability or attorney’s ability to engage with people. So if for some reason you’re super busy and someone reaches out, you’re like, “Hey, I can’t chat right now,” law student, but here’s this episode where I was on the firm podcast.
That’ll really give you a sense of who I am and why Foley. And so I have to jump a little bit also to the Foley in general, whether it be sort of what attracted you to Foley or what has kept you at Foley? Are there other unique things about the firm that are worth highlighting?
Olivia Singelmann
I mean, I’ll just go back to the people. I feel like that’s something I talked about when I said what caught my attention during the interview and then just talking about associates committee. I mean, really, my coworkers are one of the best parts of this job.
And in our office we’re really close. I think many other offices, if not all would say the exact same thing, but the DC office were all really close. I felt comfortable being myself here, and I think fully understands that caring about individuals, that’s how you produce good legal work and client service.
Our clients are also people. And so that’s kept me here, I would say, in addition to the work we do is really cool. And sometimes you’re doing it and then you step back and it’s like, wow, that’s a really awesome important impactful thing that we’re doing.
Or you just realize how much it meant to your clients. And that’s another thing I think when you’re a law student hard to… It’s easier to think about that I think sometimes in the public interest context, and that’s maybe why people start there.
But until you know about firms and the kind of work they do, you can get that same satisfaction. And so I think that’s one of the best parts of our job too.
Alexis Robertson
Absolutely. And as we wrap up, I’m going to state some things just so they’re out there so people get even more of a sense of you, but we won’t have time to really dive in.
But I think a couple other things that I want to acknowledge you for and just say you’re someone who’s very active in the firm, whether it be the Associates Committee and I mentioned the other affinity groups, the Black Affinity Group, the Hispanic Affinity Group, but also you’re very much involved in a newly formed, newly launched racial justice and equity practice group that the form has established.
And perhaps in future episodes of the show, I’ll have more time to go into it, but I think the work you do in the firm is tremendous. It’s definitely recognized, and we living in such a weird time that as the firm is seeking to improve on a variety of issues, Foley’s a great place to work, but hey, I have a job for a reason because there’s a lot more endeavoring to do.
But really your work, focusing on what we can do to further make the place more inclusive for all kinds of people, but also what we call the RJEPG, the Racial Justice Equity Practice Group has been fantastic.
But with that, what I wanted to ask you is my final real question is, is there anything else you wanted to say that we haven’t had a chance to say or just any general advice you have for somebody seeking a legal career who’s currently navigating their own career?
Olivia Singelmann
I think in terms of navigating the career, I mean, I think just talk to people. There’s a lot of different kinds of lawyers. I think people at Foley are always happy to take time and talk to prospective law students, and you shouldn’t feel uncomfortable reaching out.
I think a lot of people who know more about the legal industry, they maybe would call and ask for virtual coffee or whatever, but definitely that’s definitely
not weird. And people are happy to talk to you about it.
And I think we want quality people in this profession, and we like what we do. So you shouldn’t feel shy about doing that. And I think I never would’ve reached out to anyone in law school. And now we’ll do it to me all the time, and it’s totally fine.
Alexis Robertson
That was really great advice. Olivia, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show. And if someone wants to reach out to you, has questions, comments, maybe wants to ask you to virtual coffee, can they feel free, as you just said? So they should feel free to find you on the website and shoot you an email?
Olivia Singelmann
Yes, for sure.
Alexis Robertson
All right. Thank you so much, Olivia.
Olivia Singelmann
Thanks Alexis.
Alexis Robertson
Thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Olivia. I’m here with an update, which is that as of February 1st, 2023, Olivia joined the partnership of Foley and Lardner. Congratulations, Olivia.
Thank you for listening to The Path & The Practice. I hope you enjoyed the conversation and join us again next time. And if you did enjoy it, please share it, subscribe, and leave us a review as your feedback on the podcast is important to us.
Also, please note that this podcast may be considered attorney advertising and is made available by Foley and Lardner LLP for informational purposes only. This podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
Any opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect the views of Foley and Lardner LLP, its partners or its clients. Additionally, this podcast is not meant to convey the firm’s legal position on behalf of any client, nor is it intended to convey specific legal advice.
